Jury Park Aquatics Center II
I'll try to answer some of New Haven Resident's questions.
1- Is the proposed center an indoor or outdoor facility? If it is outdoors, we should consider the justification of spending over $5 million on a facility open only 3 months a year. Even if it makes some money, residents will be asked to pay additional tax money for something that cannot be used 3/4 of the year... reminds me a little bit about something involving Fort Wayne and a baseball stadium - albeit on a smaller scale.
The proposed Aquatics Center is an outdoor facility. They've been basing their business plan on a three month season, although the splash pad usage could be extended past that if it's included in the build. The two projects are similar in the fact that they'd both stimulate economic growth. Where they differ is that the pool would be entirely owned and operated by New Haven. The Harrison Square project is costing Fort Wayne a lot of money, but Hardball Capitol is going to reap most of the rewards. Granted, if everything works as they hope it will, Fort Wayne will benefit by enhancing downtown. I'd have a hard time justifying what they approved though. In comparison, the pool looks like a brilliant plan. I do believe the Park Board is looking out for the best interests of New Haven. The plan they've proposed was put together from citizen action groups, many meetings and much study. That's not to say it can't still be modified. That's why we're trying to get input.
2- Has a community center been studied that could also house an aquatic center? A community center would allow the aquatic complex to operate year round. It could also be used for meetings, an indoor community athletic complex, and a facility that could be rented for wedding receptions or company parties. Something that could be compared to a YMCA. Of course a study should be done to be sure that it is a fiscally sound plan.
Absolutely. A community center is being studied right now. The Park Board / City is anticipating a commitment from a local company to donate property off U.S. 24 with the restriction that it only be used for a community center. The way I understand it, major corporations are receptive to contributing to year-round community centers. The Park Board would pursue corporate funding, grants and sponsorship if the land deal goes through. Community pools don't get the same benefits. They are almost always up to the community to pay for. The problem with including an indoor pool or water park in the community center is construction costs and maintenance. The heating, cooling and dehumidification systems needed to run an indoor facility are very, very expensive. Ken and the board did a lot of research on this very topic and found that almost all the area indoor facilities were losing money - and most of them quite a bit of money. It would be great to get the community center going. I was one of the volunteers pushing the community center 10 or 15 years ago here in New Haven. There just wasn't enough public approval at that time to get it done.
3- If the aquatic center is proposed to be a year-round operated, indoor facility, has anyone from the private sector stepped forward with interest in taking on this project themselves? If there is really money to be made, private businesses should be fighting over who wins the race to break ground and get their facility running first.
I haven't heard of any private concerns proposing anything like this. Again, it's a huge expenditure for an indoor water park. That's not to say it won't happen some day. It just isn't on the table now. When the Park Board says the Aquatics Center would turn a profit, it's different from when I make decisions for our printing company. If you consider the capitol expenditure to build the facility, then added the operating costs, it wouldn't be capable of paying back both the loan and daily costs to run the park. In other words, a city project like this will never actually be "profitable". It's considered a cost to improve the quality of life in our community. The cost of building the facility would fall on the city and taxpayers. What they've focused on is being profitable as far as the operating costs to run the facility. It's possible the profits from the Aquatic Center could be used to pay back part of the bond, or it would be saved to pay for future improvements and maintenance. What I'm basically saying is that as a businessman, I wouldn't invest the money to build this expecting to turn a profit. If a private concern did build a water park, they would be charging $15 to $30 per person to use it. The Park Board's focus is to maintain a community pool, but add enough amenities to draw sufficient people to cover operating expenses. The current pool is paid for, but it's losing a lot of money because of low draw and maintenance/repair issues.
4- What is the proposed range in possible use costs for residents? Other community aquatic centers have been studied. What are they charging people to use the facility? Is it $4, $7, $10, $15 per child per visit? In other words, is this a place that people will be able to afford to visit on a weekly basis over the course of a summer.
Ken's business plan is based on charging $3.00 per person, but of course that is subject to change. Currently, the fee is $1.50 at the Jury Pool. There are plans to offer New Haven / Adams Township taxpayers some kind of resident discounts that would let the people who are paying for the facility to use it at a much lower rate than people from outside this area. They want to keep it a community pool that people can afford to use. That's been a given since day one.
Hopefully this answers a few of your questions and probably brings up more. I urge everyone to attend the City Council Meeting / Public Hearing on Tuesday night, November 13th. Let's keep the discussions going.
Thanks,
Craig
1- Is the proposed center an indoor or outdoor facility? If it is outdoors, we should consider the justification of spending over $5 million on a facility open only 3 months a year. Even if it makes some money, residents will be asked to pay additional tax money for something that cannot be used 3/4 of the year... reminds me a little bit about something involving Fort Wayne and a baseball stadium - albeit on a smaller scale.
The proposed Aquatics Center is an outdoor facility. They've been basing their business plan on a three month season, although the splash pad usage could be extended past that if it's included in the build. The two projects are similar in the fact that they'd both stimulate economic growth. Where they differ is that the pool would be entirely owned and operated by New Haven. The Harrison Square project is costing Fort Wayne a lot of money, but Hardball Capitol is going to reap most of the rewards. Granted, if everything works as they hope it will, Fort Wayne will benefit by enhancing downtown. I'd have a hard time justifying what they approved though. In comparison, the pool looks like a brilliant plan. I do believe the Park Board is looking out for the best interests of New Haven. The plan they've proposed was put together from citizen action groups, many meetings and much study. That's not to say it can't still be modified. That's why we're trying to get input.
2- Has a community center been studied that could also house an aquatic center? A community center would allow the aquatic complex to operate year round. It could also be used for meetings, an indoor community athletic complex, and a facility that could be rented for wedding receptions or company parties. Something that could be compared to a YMCA. Of course a study should be done to be sure that it is a fiscally sound plan.
Absolutely. A community center is being studied right now. The Park Board / City is anticipating a commitment from a local company to donate property off U.S. 24 with the restriction that it only be used for a community center. The way I understand it, major corporations are receptive to contributing to year-round community centers. The Park Board would pursue corporate funding, grants and sponsorship if the land deal goes through. Community pools don't get the same benefits. They are almost always up to the community to pay for. The problem with including an indoor pool or water park in the community center is construction costs and maintenance. The heating, cooling and dehumidification systems needed to run an indoor facility are very, very expensive. Ken and the board did a lot of research on this very topic and found that almost all the area indoor facilities were losing money - and most of them quite a bit of money. It would be great to get the community center going. I was one of the volunteers pushing the community center 10 or 15 years ago here in New Haven. There just wasn't enough public approval at that time to get it done.
3- If the aquatic center is proposed to be a year-round operated, indoor facility, has anyone from the private sector stepped forward with interest in taking on this project themselves? If there is really money to be made, private businesses should be fighting over who wins the race to break ground and get their facility running first.
I haven't heard of any private concerns proposing anything like this. Again, it's a huge expenditure for an indoor water park. That's not to say it won't happen some day. It just isn't on the table now. When the Park Board says the Aquatics Center would turn a profit, it's different from when I make decisions for our printing company. If you consider the capitol expenditure to build the facility, then added the operating costs, it wouldn't be capable of paying back both the loan and daily costs to run the park. In other words, a city project like this will never actually be "profitable". It's considered a cost to improve the quality of life in our community. The cost of building the facility would fall on the city and taxpayers. What they've focused on is being profitable as far as the operating costs to run the facility. It's possible the profits from the Aquatic Center could be used to pay back part of the bond, or it would be saved to pay for future improvements and maintenance. What I'm basically saying is that as a businessman, I wouldn't invest the money to build this expecting to turn a profit. If a private concern did build a water park, they would be charging $15 to $30 per person to use it. The Park Board's focus is to maintain a community pool, but add enough amenities to draw sufficient people to cover operating expenses. The current pool is paid for, but it's losing a lot of money because of low draw and maintenance/repair issues.
4- What is the proposed range in possible use costs for residents? Other community aquatic centers have been studied. What are they charging people to use the facility? Is it $4, $7, $10, $15 per child per visit? In other words, is this a place that people will be able to afford to visit on a weekly basis over the course of a summer.
Ken's business plan is based on charging $3.00 per person, but of course that is subject to change. Currently, the fee is $1.50 at the Jury Pool. There are plans to offer New Haven / Adams Township taxpayers some kind of resident discounts that would let the people who are paying for the facility to use it at a much lower rate than people from outside this area. They want to keep it a community pool that people can afford to use. That's been a given since day one.
Hopefully this answers a few of your questions and probably brings up more. I urge everyone to attend the City Council Meeting / Public Hearing on Tuesday night, November 13th. Let's keep the discussions going.
Thanks,
Craig
Every generation faces the challenge of improving life for those that follow. New Haven is poised to tackle that challenge with an ambitious project that will fortify a core value of the region- family togetherness- for generations to come. Studies done by pool design firms show that in traditional pools, 90 to 95 percent of the users were age 14 and under. On the other hand, family aquatic center personnel find 40 to 45 percent of its users are adults. This means entire families share the fun at family aquatic centers.
This project has the potential to become a signature facility for New Haven. Many initiatives and ideas have been criticized before for many different reasons: not needed, to small of a target audience, does not have an impact on enough people…. A project of this size is for everyone. It benefits the entire community, and to that end can lead by example for more positive community changes to come. While a large manufacturing plant may not locate in New Haven solely on the fact that it has a modern family aquatic center, the process of making this vision a reality shows the kind of spirit the community has and its desire to improve itself.
Our facility will attract people of all ages, so it is much more likely to become a family destination. The zero depth entry will allow everyone from toddlers to seniors a safe place to play, sit and splash in water just a few inches deep. Those who may fear the water will still feel safe in the shallow areas while enjoying the pool. Those with physical disabilities can enjoy the benefits of our pool since the zero depth entry will allow access for all. Fitness classes will provide therapeutic exercise for adults of all ages. Many people will be able to enjoy family aquatics as never before.
In order to keep the capitol costs down some have suggested that we “just replace the old pool.” At a cost of more than $2 million for the same 40 year old rectangular design and infrastructure, it would certainly lower the capital financial needs. However the traditional pool area is one of the design elements that by itself limit the attractiveness and ability for many different people to enjoy the aquatic experience. And it provides no additional income to offset its operation.
This is a great project. It has been well planned and thought out. Our architects are the some of the best in their fields and have done a great job in planning the right facility for New Haven. Cities from California to Texas to Utah to Missouri to Minnesota to Indiana all operate successful family aquatic centers outdoors 3 months a year. It is time that the New Haven City Council has faith and trust in the Parks Department that we have done our homework and proposed a project that is right for New Haven.
Mike Clendenen
New Haven-Adams Township Park Board
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Cost of Aquatic center will be 9.5 million by the year 2030. This includes interest but nothing has been added for an access road to the park. Cost to me the taxpayer will be $1600 over 20 years and I doubt I will use it. Why should I pay that kind of money for a facility that is only open 3 months out of the year. Diamond Jim's water park close by did not make a profit. They are now closed. It cost my husband and 4 grandchildren $30 to go to a waterpark in Montana this past summer. How often will people spend that amount? I moved to New Haven 40 years ago because the tax rate was one of the lowest in Allen County, now it is one of the highest. If you keep raising taxes in New Haven nobody will want to buy a home here. We just recently had a hugh increase in our water bills due to bonds that were issued, now you want to increase property taxes to pay for these bonds, next you will want to issue more bonds to build a community center. When will it end? This is called tax and spend something the democrats like to do. I was amazed that only a few of the city council members had any questions at the council meeting. I hope the community remembers this at the election.
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Lois,
I think that everyone can appreciate your concerns regarding the cost. But unfortunately that line of thinking is the reason that New Haven's downtown was in such poor shape - nobody wanted to spend the money to maintain it. The same goes for the pool.
In order to retain and attract business, New Haven needs have a strong quality of life. The more businesses that are attracted to the area, the more players you have in the property tax cost-sharing game.
A couple of other notes: Your property tax RATE has not increased, but the value of your property has. Therefore you pay more in taxes than you did 10 years ago. Also, Diamond Jim's went out of business because the owner didn't maintain and invest in his property.
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I think the jury aquatic center sounds great,but the park dept. has got the cart before the horse so to speak. The parks dept. is well intentioned,but not well informed. A 12mo community center is what the people of New Haven need and want! They would be wise to build this 12mo facility for young & old as soon as possible, and then attack the aquatic facility venture.The aquatic facility will no doubt bring people to new haven (for the day)and will make money (for month)The comunity center will bring people to New Haven to live & settle down for the rest of their lives. The community center probably won't make money,but the parks dept. is a non- profit dept. which is for the benefit of the community not to make money. A pool should be built at jury-the discussion is what besides the pool does the community need? I think the pool,some additional shade trees & landscaping,maybe improved & up-dated locker rooms,maybe a splash pad for young and old to enjoy and that is all! After the community center is built then the aquatic center can be added to the jury pool if parks dept. wants to do so at that time.I too have talked with many people who have said "We need a year around commuity center!" They aren't neccesarily against the aquatic center,but build & finance it after the community center or not at all!
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The Parks Department does not have the cart before the horse; we are waiting on a land donation to build the horse on. We realize that we are in need of a community center/rec center/senior center and are in the process of a land donation that has taken about a year to work out. This is a great location and we hope to have this finalized by the end of the year. We have money that can only used for a community center and once we have the property, we will use some of those funds to higher an architect firm to help us with planning and fund raising. We will have plenty of public input meetings to plan this facility just like we did with the aquatics center. Jury is in need of being replaced now and may not make it through next season. Both of these projects are very important to our community. I realize we are asking a lot of the tax payers with two large back to back projects but the health and economic benefits are worth it in the long run.
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